Dehumidifying problemm

resistbody · Post by **resistbody** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 23:00

Hello, Im having trouble with dehumidifying my curing cabinet.
I use condensation method, but its not very effective. I use display fridge, with 2 sucking fans and evaporator inside the fridge, air is sucked from above and blown from bottom of cabinet. On fans grills I've put 2 heating coils to increase income temperature to evaporator to stimulate condensing of moisture in the air over the evaporator.
The drained water goes outside.
The problem is that condensed moisture is not enough. My RH% goes up to 79 and even more.
Could you give me some advices to efficient decrease the RH%
I attach some pictures of my first build.
As I get it

Some wires

Stainless steel sausage hangers

First fillup

After installing DHC-100+ humidity controller (not calibrated)

Heating coils

Pic from today

Igor Duńczyk · Post by **Igor Duńczyk** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 01:37

Добър ден господин български,

Why do you want to go down

79% sounds like a good level for the phase that follows just after the fermentation.
What is your ideal about a "right" RH level ?

If you use starter cultures then the humidity should be at least 92% and preferably 98% during the first 36 - 48 hours of the fermentation phase.
Then, after pH has dropped to 5,25 or below, you can start decreasing humidity to 80% and temperature to 18C and continue ripening at even lover temperatures (12 - 16C) and also lower RH even further (70 - 60%).

However, if you do not use starter cultures you probably ferment at lower temperatures than 20C (?)
In that case humidity does not have to be quite as high. 75 - 80% should be sufficient depending on temperature.
What are your present parameters, and what is the largest calibre you make ?

I could be afraid that with a lower humidity than 75% you would risk a dry rim under the casing, preventing a efficient drying out.
But many different factors contribute and I am not the person who wants to present the "universal key".

Does the mould on the sausages borther you or do you leave it to grow naturally?

By the way: You may contribute to a previous thread about how to make real Sudziuk (Sucuk, Suđuk, Суджук) Balkan style. I guess we are many who would appreciate

el Ducko · Post by **el Ducko** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 15:31

resistbody wrote:On fans grills I've put 2 heating coils to increase income temperature to evaporator to stimulate condensing of moisture in the air over the evaporator.
The drained water goes outside.

if I understand you correctly, you are heating the inlet air. This decreases the RELATIVE humidity in the incoming air, but not the ABSOLUTE humidity... Meaning that the amount of water and the amount of air that are coming in are both still the same, but the temperature is not. All you are doing is increasing the heat load on the condenser. (Actually, because the heated air is less dense, there is slightly less air/water entering.)

It may be that you can reach a lower humidity by placing the heating elements AFTER the evaporator and running at the same temperature setting. The cooling equipment will work harder, but because the evaporator is operating cooler, more water will condense out.

Confused? (Yes, I thought so!) Most people are confused by relative humidity.
Most people are also confused by relatives, also, so perhaps it is logical.

Good luck. Let us know if this change helps or not.

resistbody · Post by **resistbody** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 22:50

Yes I understand my mistake, i read about construction of drying chambers before, but it look I've made it wrong. I attach some pictures of today cut examples.
P.S.: Sorry if I have mistakes, my english is not very good.
P.S.2:Soon I'll post recepie for Sudziuk and Lukanka (by BDS- ex national standard, and new standarts), and some home recepies.

Lukanka (pork and cattle meat fine grinded)

Koledarche or Selska nadenica (Village sausage) Don't know is that right translation

It looks there is some ring on it, but its not problem because, shouldnt be too dry (semy-dry)

resistbody · Post by **resistbody** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 22:51

Today I've made some test of the Lukanka.
Water in product - 31%
aW - 0,875
pH - 6.2 -looks high to me (pH meters is prety acurate)

Here is rececpt for Sudziuk (by EX BDS (national factory standard) before 1989)
Recepy is in percents
100 - uniform meat (one-sorted, up to 10% connective tissue)
2.200 - salt
0.040 - KNO3
0.150 - sugar
0.300 - black(white) peper
0.300 - cumin
Thin cattle casings

Cut meat in to pieces, and grind it on kidney plate. put it tightly in tables on layer up to 15cm, at -5C, for drying and tighten for 24hours.
Add the salting materials and grind them at plate with 4mm hole, mix it in mixer until getting homogen mass.
Leave it 1 day at 4-6C for maturing.
Fill it tightly in casings.
Form 40-50cm long pieces as horseshoe.
2-3days at 10-12C RH 85% for draining
15-20days 15-20C RH 75-80% 2-3 pressings

Hope someone will make it more understandable, as I said my englis is not very good

P.S.: Its prety old recepy, cumin is not good as in that days, sugar is used as food for bacterias, and KNO3 for transformating Mb(myoglobin) to NOMb (nitrosomyoglobin).If you whant may use combos for similar effect

el Ducko · Post by **el Ducko** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 14:45

Thank you for the sudziuk recipe, Resistbody. I will check it out, including substituting "cure #1" for your nitrite amount. Is the sausage cured by packing into cloth and hanging in a cool place for weeks or months? In that case, I would substitute "cure #2."

Your English is far better than my Bulgarian!!! (...which does not exist.) Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. You are a valued addition to the forum.
Duck

resistbody · Post by **resistbody** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 22:57

No, or I dont know about hanging in cloth, the real traditional recepy, as I said this is recepy by BDS(ex national standard, like russian GOST) Specialu Gornooryahovski Sudziuk was registered as protection of geographical indications and designations of origin for agricultural products and foodstuffs. This is document in english Now only factories in that region and using this technology can sold it by the name GORNOORYAHOVSKI SUDZHUK
I promisse to add more traditional products when I have spare time, and even translate some articles.

Today I've moved heating element after the evaporator, this days when put in new batch, will see is it more eficient.
Second row from above(darker) is Sudziuk

Heating element

Test cuts

Tommorow I'll make some mesurments of sausages (pH,aW,Water%)[/b]

Chuckwagon · Post by **Chuckwagon** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 23:17

Hi Resistbody,
Your work looks very nice and your English is just fine. In fact, it is really good. You don't need to apologize for a thing. You are doing fine. It's nice to have you with us and it's great to talk to you. I wish I had some of the technical answers for your humidifier. El Ducko has a lot of expertise and I admire him very much (but don't tell him that

)! Thanks for sharing the recipe and photos too. Please keep posting.

Best Wishes,
Chuckwagon

el Ducko · Post by **el Ducko** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 21:21

...beautiful equipment. ...fascinating article. Many thanks for both the pictures and the file. The sausage manufacturing conditions are a bit different from what I am used to. This is a great way to learn.
Many thanks!

resistbody · Post by **resistbody** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 23:09

Today i added one more heater, because that one was not enought.
Sudziuk is on the press tonight, tomorow goes back in, also and new batch.
Current set parameters are: Temperature 13-14C and RH% 76-79% (heater starts at 79 and stops at 76) I'm still testing.
It's still hot, but when gets cold, a lot of families in Bulgaria makes dry sausages (lukanka and sudziuk) its tradition, like home wine and high wine destilate(rakia).
Actualy I'm drinking home made Cabernet at the moment, cheers.
Please change topic of threat on something different, as my first chamber, or my equipement, as you want.
I'll take pictures and of rest of the equipement.

resistbody · Post by **resistbody** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 22:56

Tonight test cuts of Sudziuk

Shuswap · Post by **Shuswap** » Fri Nov 29, 2013 00:29

P.S.: Sorry if I have mistakes, my english is not very good.

Resistbody - you do not have to be sorry about your English. I failed Spanish and give you loads of credit for stepping out of your comfort zone.

resistbody · Post by **resistbody** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 23:31

My new press

And some more

Soon will post more pics of my equipment...

Post by **redzed** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 05:03

Very nice. I look forward to seeing more. Looks like you are certainly ready for the Christmas celebrations!

resistbody · Post by **resistbody** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 20:53

Yesterday I cut larget diameter I have put inside the chamber, about 25cm(10inces) in diameter. Pressed it several times.

Also made some modification to my stuffer. I've put timer so all sausages will be almost same size. Links below..
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqjeaknnr2z45il/IMAG0117.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6noi8ji656ceecm/IMAG0174.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j00d49vmcnsec2i/IMAG0163.jpg

Dehumidifying problemm

Re: Dehumidifying problemm